“Pascale talks to us about “well-being” and the evolution of the concept of ecology. She shares her thoughts on the body, her awareness of the cyclical feminine, and self-acceptance. A fascinating exchange!”

Anna: I'm delighted that you accepted our invitation to participate in our podcast and before we get into the hard questions, I would first like to ask you to please introduce yourself.

Pascale: I'm delighted that you invited me, especially to talk about the body, because I get asked a lot about cosmetics, but my great passion for the past 25 years has been well-being and the question of the body. So, I've been working in the cosmetics sector for 30 years, but also in the wellness sector, so food, spas, sports, everything that contributes to our well-being, in fact. I have several roles. I have a role to help brands glimpse what consumers will want tomorrow. And I was already very focused on organic, ecology, natural products at the end of the 90s. And I also help brands with branding, brand placement, value alignment, consistency, and many young brands for the past four years that I have great pleasure in supporting.

A: Okay, so, in fact, the cap is double or triple, or even quadruple?

P: Yes, because I also relay, I really like and in a completely gracious and selfless way to highlight these brands, especially on Instagram, interviewing them live. And then to carry the word of brands, including large groups also on their virtuous actions on LinkedIn, where I was delighted to be elected best influencer 2020.

A: Bravo! It is in light of all this experience that I am going to ask you a few questions. The first concerns ecology in general. My question is what is your relationship with ecology and, above all, how has it evolved in recent years?

P: So, my relationship with ecology was realized 25 years ago, and it happened above all through my relationship with my body, my relationship with myself, through nutrition. In fact, I was very drawn to organic and I didn't know why at all. You have to let yourself go and follow what you feel. And so, I had this very, very strong call for naturalness that I went to experiment very quickly, through nutrition. That's why I trained in nutrition/naturopathy in the early 2000s, but also later in phytotherapy, essential oils... I took lots of courses and training when I became a consultant and I created Trend Sourcing in 2000. I had that time too and ultimately, I discovered afterwards that it was the living that I wanted to preserve and that interested me because, for example, I am very stubborn about the fact that lobbies or companies put a lot of pollutants and ingredients that are harmful to health, especially in food. And that drives me crazy. In fact, crazy, I saw another report on Thema this week about entire populations being decimated by diabetes, obviously the poorest populations. There were lots of examples in the United States, but that's what really matters to me, it's the preservation of health and all the means to achieve it. So, this ecology, this connection to life, I've seen it evolve in recent years, a lot in relation to the climate and the climate issue and the fact that we are experiencing and will experience major climate change, especially when we read the reports of the IPCC experts who are issuing serious warnings starting in 2028. So, it's tomorrow. And many philosophers and sociologists that I like to follow and read have spoken a lot about the fact that we are all connected. It's linked to an absolute interdependence between all kingdoms: plants, animals, insects, everything that exists and lives on the planet and of course us, humans. And I have the feeling that this is still a vision that is not shared by everyone, so there is a big rise in awareness that I have also observed over the past four years and so much the better and a lot among the younger generations who are working hard because they are well aware that this is the last line of defense for action. And they train the elders.

A: Why 4 years?

P : I say 4 or 5 years? Because that's when I really noticed that there was a liberation of taboos and therefore that speech was much more fluid, including on the issue of women, on violence, but also the body, periods, menopause. So we'll get to that. And then what attracted me at the end of the 90s and I went a lot to Japan, to the United States, to many countries. And I was passionate about cosmetics that at the time were called mystical cosmetics. But it was impossible to bring it back to France, or to do yoga like I did. We were seen as high. I trained in astrology too, so everything that was astro, stones, talking about chakras, energies. But frankly, people looked at you as if you were in a cult. I almost had to hide. Well, I couldn't talk to everyone, like I can now about everything I was doing in fact. So, that's why I've been saying that for the past five years, people have been speaking out much more freely. Social media has obviously encouraged all these exchanges, and Instagram has done a lot. And so, there's a rise in testimonies, sharing, staging, photos. And that's extraordinary. So that's the big change in ecology, it's also about re-establishing the link between all living things and this interdependence which means that if, as we're currently experiencing, we're experiencing a sharp decline in insects and birds, it's really the danger of human life that's there. Rather than constantly telling ourselves "preserve the planet," it's above all about preserving humans because the planet will always be there. It's been there for billions of years, and a priori, even if disasters can happen, it will resist, whereas humans risk having much more complicated times. So, above all, it's about respecting yourself.

A: And if I narrow the scope, what does ecology, this time bodily, evoke for you?

P: It's really about taking care of yourself, so respecting yourself, listening to yourself, it's about listening to yourself a lot.

I can hear and understand – I have testimonies because I support people at this level individually – that it is not innate to be able and know how to listen to yourself, to your body. Its needs. And then to honor them, in fact. But that means listening if you have tensions, if you have signs that can also be linked to cycles. If you have irritations, in fact, all kinds of possible feelings because the body will never betray us. The body is extremely faithful and to be able to rely on your body is truly extraordinary because we have, on another plane, we have chosen our incarnation. We have chosen to become one with our body in this life and therefore we have everything to gain by making it the best possible ally since once again, it will be there for this whole life and it will not betray us. Then, there is the question, obviously, of illnesses, of many things that can happen. We will talk about that on another occasion. But there you have it, body ecology is actually about doing yourself as much good as possible, so being attentive to the techniques or means that will suit you.

A: And you already said that it's complicated to listen to yourself, given your experience with people who consult you. Why is it complicated to listen to yourself? What are the difficulties?

P: The difficulties? I can receive people who are very much in their heads, who are in their intellect and who do not have this habit or this perception of things at all. For them, it requires a real effort to sit down and consider their body for x reasons. Because they have not been taught, it's true that at the level, in our history, with Descartes, the Catholic religion, the body is cut off from the mind. However, this was not at all the case among the Greeks for example. When you read Plato, all the philosophy of the Greeks, everything is linked. And in all medicines, including Hippocratic. And then, further, in China, Ayurveda, the body, obviously, and the mind are totally linked. So, we did not have this habit. It is not relayed either at school or by parents, unless we were lucky enough to have parents who are already very connected, in these habits or in professions that will work with the body. So, indeed, we can be completely in the mind, in doing, in action, because society has also put a lot of pressure on us. And then enormously for 20 years, to consider the human as an individual who must be profitable. It's terrible, but it's true that it's the profitability of the human in business in work. Surpassing oneself, having to surpass oneself to work...

A: What do we learn? How do we learn to listen to ourselves? It's very hard to learn to listen to ourselves.

P: So, it's a path, it's a journey, but it's going to be truly individual. So, giving tips, general things, won't necessarily suit the person who's currently listening to us, since it really depends on their journey and their current level of listening. But I would say it can simply involve sitting down for three minutes. Well, it's not very long. It's a short, accessible time in a place that you like, if possible. Here's a little, somewhat sanctuary-like corner of your room, for example. I see more and more people making little altars, with photos they like, with stones and lucky charms. Finally, something. We want to meditate, or it can even be outside, in front of a landscape, a place where you know you won't be disturbed. And then you have to ask yourself what am I feeling? What is my body telling me? Hey, I feel a little something in my shoulder when I pass my hand over it, I hadn't felt it. I have a little discomfort there. Hey, that's weird. Oh yes, at the hip and pelvis, it's true that I could perhaps correct my position a little. Or say to myself "But now, my head is really hot." What can we do to pacify? To remove it? There are movements. I like a few daoyin or Qi Gong movements, but even if it's just passing, for example, my hands over my forehead alternating right / left. There you go, that's a first benefit of course being able to breathe, blow out and be attentive to your breathing. Lower your shoulders. We raise our shoulders, we lower them, we make little movements like that and immediately, we feel better. Take deep breaths. Then let go. I let go of everything that bothers me. And then, it can be in the morning when we wake up, we don't get up right away. We stay lying down. We pay attention to our dreams sometimes. And then, the more attentive we are, the more the dreams will come to consciousness. I've been writing them down for 15 years and in fact, it's fabulous because there are dreams that tell me what's going to happen. And then, it's the subconscious that comes to consciousness. They warn us that we're entering a phase where it's time to work around this or that theme or to listen. I say that because I love therapy and psychiatry, so I'm very attentive, obviously, to my dreams, we only dream of ourselves, even when we obviously dream of others, of our sweetheart, our sweetheart, our parents, whatever. We only dream of our dream, of a part of ourselves that comes to consciousness. And then, sometimes, we don't remember our dreams. But when we get used to it, my dreams, my very important dreams, wake me up. They wake me up at 4 or 5 o'clock. I write it down right away and I fall asleep. So there you go, we listen to ourselves, we move our bodies a little, we make small movements, we take our time.

A: You describe a lifestyle, routines ... And the question of cycles, how do we understand our own cycles?

P: For me, it was a great story. Again, it's very personal and it's fantastic that we're able to speak out so much. But it's true that cycles were complex for me. Listening is fundamental. They upset us. There's the skin that speaks. There's the body with the breasts. We're going to be warned of our periods, we're going to have mood changes. All of this is going to be with us, in fact. In the end, it stayed with me from the age of 14 to 51 and I had lots of different relationships with these cycles which bothered me a lot, a lot, enormously. I had a lot of pain that I tried to temper with plants, with essential oils, with massages, and sometimes I even went to allopathy when I couldn't take it anymore. I sometimes took medication to reduce the cramps and I read a lot too. There are books that helped me. Gynecology/naturopathy textbooks like Mama Mélisse by Rina Nissim. I read The Blood of Women. Well, I really wanted to know. I studied a lot, as I said, including in books. And then it was after giving birth that everything became clearer. In fact, I didn't have any pain at all. Once I gave birth. But I still waited until I was 40.

A: Yes, it's the awareness and consciousness of one's own cycles. For me, it was around 30 years old and in fact, you did the opposite, you first sought to find out and in fact, the day you gave birth, that became clear.

P: Yes, it unraveled. In fact, there was also a whole psychological connection, so I also worked in therapy, because there are sometimes invisible connections. There are transgenerational connections. So, I also had a sort of psychological impossibility of having a child. And my daughter arrived by surprise, completely by surprise. And I think I would never have been able to have her otherwise in my life story. I thought I wouldn't have children, and luckily she arrived, and it was extraordinary for me, a fabulous opening. But we can have a life, obviously without children, and we will create in a completely different way.

A: So it was your daughter who reconciled you with cycles?

P: Ah yes, but it's very strong, whereas in my transgenerational feminine, it wasn't possible. And I also had injunctions to have a child. So I had to spend years asking myself "is it my mother's desire to have a child or is it my own desire?" I didn't know. And then the cycles, I wasn't educated. I found out. My mother had said almost nothing.

It was just the event of the day I got my period with some rather bizarre expressions like “the English have arrived”, we said that to my father… Yay! but in fact, I got all my culture from magazines. At the time, it was OK magazine. I was eager for testimonials. And then, obviously, I talked about it with my friends, my cousins and everything. I questioned myself because I saw that I didn't have cycles like the average person, I had cycles of 40-45 days. When I discovered naturopathy 25 years ago, I really wanted to find a gynecologist who worked in naturopathy so that there would be real consistency. It's great, it helps enormously. And then, because I wanted natural means of contraception. I didn't want hormones, I had read a lot that hormones were linked to hormone-dependent events and cancers afterwards. So, anyway, without panicking, once again, each story is different. But there you go. But the question of cycles has been very, very important in my life and it was my daughter who made me accept all of that. I never had any more pain. It was extraordinary. I felt good, and then I had an extraordinary pregnancy. There is also a book that I can recommend on the subject “Accueilment, naissance, un chemin initiatique” by Martine Texier. And, I really talked to my daughter to get her to introduce herself. I told her all the journey she would have to take in my body to give birth. And so, I really told her how to turn to avoid a breech birth, etc. I wanted to give birth naturally and my wish was granted. I arrived in a fire truck. And then my waters didn't even break. She arrived wearing her own bag. I got to 10, and I was in really, really bad pain. I had forgotten all my instructions, I wanted an epidural... She came out in 20 minutes, it was a done deal. But I had talked to her a lot beforehand. I had done a lot of things, actually, on my body level, perineal massage, haptonomy, a lot of things to make this birth go as well as possible. And to finish with the question, at menopause, I was unhappy not to be able to say goodbye to my period even though it had bothered me so much. But in fact, they went away like that. In fact, since I listen to my body a lot, I knew it was possibly the last time, but it was very subtle because it was just that all of a sudden, look, it had lasted longer than a single day and there was a lighter flow. But that's it. And that was it. I said to myself, "Oh, I couldn't have a real party." And besides, I think we should celebrate like we used to. We really celebrated the arrival of menstruation for young girls, for young women, with lots of rituals, little messages where everyone also testifies to this unique day in life. And we should celebrate the departure in the same way, because now, another period is opening and it's a period that is truly a door for me, which is extraordinary. More spirituality, more awareness towards other areas, other paths and creativity. So, in fact, since creativity is no longer at the service of the interior of the body, of matter, this creativity is transformed. And it's a path that many women take who reveal themselves, for example, in writing, painting, manual, artistic activities. And I think that this openness that this menopause gives should be much more focused on social media and not simply a report on hot flashes or problems that not all women have. Besides, because the better we are with our body, the better we prepare for menopause. And I had prepared for it a lot because I had interviewed a lot of doctors through my profession and my studies, doctors around the age who had told me that it is prepared from the age of 40. But it can even be prepared a few years before in terms of routine and hygiene. But that doesn't prevent lots of pleasures. Once again...

A: What you say is beautiful. Is there one mantra or several?

P: The body is sacred. So, even if it's difficult to live with for some or for us. Because for me, there was a period in my life where I gained twenty kilos, so I can talk about it too and I can testify to how my body transformed. So the body is sacred, so to be able to be as connected to it as possible, to listen to it and respect it, but above all to accept it. I would say that the mantra is to accept yourself in the present. Every day is different. We can be angry at one moment to be sad, but in the evening, it will have changed and the next day, we will be completely different to be super joyful, in sharing. So there you have it. Nothing is linear, like life, like the ebb and flow, like the moon and the sun. And there you have it. The more we accept ourselves, the more connected we are with ourselves and the more fabulous life will be because we will give back what we are to others. We will bear witness, we will pass it on to others.

A: Thank you Pascale

P: Thank you for this wonderful exchange and thank you to everyone who is listening to us and see you soon for other exchanges.